drop in quality 3D CG art on the net? (CGFeedback being the exception)

[Infinite]

Hi all,

I don't want to sound like a misery guts but I just wanted to see how others felt.

I've noticed recently, well since the beginning of this year a sudden drop in online participation of many high profile cg artists on most high profile CG Forums (not naming any names) most top row's on most sites are down right awful and really lack anything of top quality content (This is of course my opinion) and seem to showcase more promotions and 2D work than anything else, it's like this on a couple of sites.

There's also been a real drop in updates on a certain sculpting sites forum top row. Is it the holidays? recession?

Apart from this grand place! :dance: just trawl through the top row here and it blows your mind :rofl:

To me it seems that CGFeedback has seen a stunning spurt in quality since it's inception (please, I'm not blowing my own trumpet here with anything I have submitted)

Some great artists who have been very quiet over the years have suddenly popped up (defontaine, begin, pascal, vimmy, jonas and many others) and started to again post unique and inspiring work here that you don't really see else where.

I just wondered what others thought of this phenomenon? is it just me? or am I right? are certain artists put off from other sites? can't be bothered or just to busy with work and life commitments?

Also whilst sitting on my grand soap box, I see some nasty trends of people spreading knowledge and 'how to' tutorials based on some quite poor results. Meaning that bad knowledge and some nasty habits are being taught to others. is this perhaps a side effect of over saturation of artwork by the masses?

I remember a time (back in the mid 90's) when I would have to wait a whole month until a CG magazine came out to see anything vaguely creative, as there was no real online outlet. Now it is literally every where and anyone has the ability to participate.

Please excuse me if I sound pompous or full of it, I just fancied starting a dialogue about this.

Of course there are the odd exceptions as there is some stunning work floating around the net, outside of these grand walls :thumbsup:

Thoughts :welcome:

.....*runs for the hills*

[El Burritoh]

Well, I'm a newbie. That's my excuse. :cool: I hope that doesn't turn people off.

Since the mid-90s, digital artists have become quite numerous, leading to a pretty full market. Perhaps with the global economic situation, artists are more worried about their job security than ever before. Just wondering out loud here. I knew a guy who got a nice expensive education at the Art Institute in CA and would horde all his secrets reminding me how much that learning cost him and how he wouldn't give it away for free. It sounds a little rough, but to be fair, his field (commercial photography) is pretty competitive.

Maybe there's a little of that going on in some online circles. Or maybe all the great artists are just too busy working their tails off.

As for the drop in quality, I think we're finally seeing how important it is to have a good background in traditional art. With advances in things like sculpting or SSS and rendering, the lines between the technical and the artistic have never been more blurred. It really does come down to how good an artist you are, not how well you know 3D. And that's my problem, by the way....oh how I wish I had taken more art classes in school!

As for people like me who are "newer" to this, I sincerely, truly, honestly hope we're not sticking around like wet T-shirts making nuisances of ourselves. One of the reasons I came here is that I want to get better at what I do, and in a production context. Getting proper feedback on places like CGTalk (yeah, I'll name it!) that meets that goal is hit-or-miss, and I don't want to clutter that site up with more amateur work than is already there. Not that I want to "clutter" this site either, but this site is called CG Feedback after all, and I'm grateful for the humility of everyone here and the willingness to give honest opinions in a civil manner.

[PascalR]

Thanks guys for the kind words about CGFeedback. Getting proper feedback on your own works is the whole point of this forum, whatever your level is.
Top row threads are chosen either for the inspiring quality of the works, or for useful tutorials, tips and tricks.
There are tons of great works posted all around the web, and I think they get lost on bigger forums. I am very happy and grateful to see world class artists contributing here, and helping others.
Let's keep up the good spirit, and hopefully this community will keep growing in a positive way :)
:beerchug:

[ZippZopp]

i totally agree with what you're saying. I too have noticed a bit of a drop in quality around the net as well. Maybe it is because we're starting to overcome the technical hump that has been inherent with CG since its beginnings. Creating anything in CG hadn't been as user friendly as it has been in recent times, and it is constantly getting easier. I think this accessibility has allowed more people to get into it without really developing the proper skill set to create nice work.

[Infinite]

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess it must be my imagination, I didn't mean for the first post to sound quite so negative as it lowers the tone here at CGFeedback, which is not good but I am glad to see some others have noticed a change in quality on line. It just seems to me as if some sites are so quiet these days.

This site is buzzing which is a great sign and REALLY inspiring, all sorts of talent coming out of the wood work again to post some amazing work! :dance:

[BrettSinclair]

I'm not sure if its a drop in quality or if its just people becoming desensitized by the art we see. A couple years ago before sss and zbrush and all the bells and whistles, people would post things and be in awe.
Its the same thing with movies. If there isn't uber cities being smashed up or cool critters its boring.

The same trend has hit music:D, Artists have been rehashing old music for ages now and most sound worse.

I think creatively we are hitting the roof.
Well thats my crappy excuse:o.

[Infinite]

Hey Brett, yeah I see what you mean but there are still AAA pieces of work floating around the net. As a good example you just have to look at the quality of the posts and plugs here compared to other sites. There is a big difference in quality and I wondered why that is?

Also as I touched on in the first post (and I have noticed even more the last few weeks) bad habits seem to have crept in with new comers and beginners (myself included in many respects) and it's as if older more experienced artists cant be bothered any more to say "no don't do that, do it this way" as they must find themselves constantly repeating methods and working practices since the mid 90's. I guess it gets tedious after a couple of dozen times saying it.

Then these bad habits creep in..

This is also what makes this site fresh. As there is a certain bar that has been set. I guess it comes down to not having any Tom, Dick or Harry telling you how to do something correctly. As there needs to be some kind of backup to the critique I find, of course any human can critique on a piece of art but unless you have been there and gone through the pain, understand the process and have the proper sparkly goods to show for it, you shouldn't really be able to critique, perhaps there should be "a license to critique" ......I kid! I kid!

It's a fine line.

I guess I just kind of miss that buzz that I saw in the early 00's when 3D CG really evolved and blasted on to the scene. Things seem very quiet these days..

[BrettSinclair]

I'm almost afraid to ask what bad habits :D

Yea I often don't like to crit as I find its not my place to say anything.
But just because someone crits your work won't mean its right. I guess they are only suggestions.

But I do agree with you for the most part. I was thinking exactly this.
a few years back there was this "magic" to the industry. Maybe its just because I've been on my own for awhile now and being in South Africa I don't get exposed to companies and opportunities that others have (maybe I should get off my arse :p). Perhaps in a more creative environment you begin to care less about whats on the intrawebs and more about whats in front of you.

But yea. Its like some one has told us santa doesn't exist anymore. haha.

[Infinite]

Perhaps in a more creative environment you begin to care less about whats on the intrawebs and more about whats in front of you.

It's still nice to see inspiring work though on the intrawebs, allowing individuals to show off what they strive to do. It's a shame more FX and Games Studios arent more open to sharing their work and concepts. I think most high profile artists with good jobs at studios just want to switch off after work, and are constrained to not be able to show their day to day work and are to tired and sick of CG at the end of the working day to be able to do anything more.




But yea. Its like some one has told us santa doesn't exist anymore. haha.

Wha?! he doesn't!? :confused: next you will be telling me there is no God! :sw:

So kind of I guess.... and more so that santa's little helpers have got tired of making toys!

[BrettSinclair]

Thats it exactly. If your slogging away day in day out at work and can't show it. Why go home and do more? Its pointless. I also think that there is good art out there. But it doesn't make front row. As mentioned earlier for the following reasons..

A: Forums are swamped with art so the majority get buried in the masses.

B: Its up to a forum leaders opinion of what good "art" is.

C: Forums have their "favourites" that often get awarded front page regardless of quality.

D: Front pages are now used to promote apps etc.

C: Who cares.... lol

E: Santa is real we just stopped believing :P

[Infinite]

A: Forums are swamped with art so the majority get buried in the masses.

B: Its up to a forum leaders opinion of what good "art" is.

C: Forums have their "favourites" that often get awarded front page regardless of quality.


NAIL.... ON... THE... HEAD!



D: Front pages are now used to promote apps etc.


Yeah this is sad but I guess they have to make money.


C: Who cares.... lol

This was my whole point of the post. In answer to that.... Me. I care.

Having inspirational art online, that is new and fresh each week/month is really encouraging, especially for the CG types that don't have a 24/7 job at a big studio and thrive of others. Competition is great and really can help drive people forwards. It's no good when it's gets stagnant and dull.

I love it when I see a brand new CG character crop up that defies the laws of CG, makes your jaw drop and makes you drool. After getting over the initial jealousy, rage and fear I get a rush of appreciation and a feeling of "how did they! what the!?" which then makes me want to emulate and better the work myself. This is why I care. clap

I'm lucky enough to be in a position to share allot of what I do as it is mostly for my own purposes, so there is no need to really hide it because of NDA's. I always try and negotiate this into a contract before hand.

Plus CG is my life pretty much, I guess not so much for others.

When you freelance (as most will appreciate, that do it) you can't really stop for a second. As you can't hide behind the petty coat of mommy company to pay your salary each month.

No create..No feed!



E: Santa is real we just stopped believing :P

I believe! I BELIEVE! clap

[BrettSinclair]

This was my whole point of the post. In answer to that.... Me. I care.

Having inspirational art online, that is new and fresh each week/month is really encouraging, especially for the CG types that don't have a 24/7 job at a big studio and thrive of others. Competition is great and really can help drive people forwards. It's no good when it's gets stagnant and dull.

I love it when I see a brand new CG character crop up that defies the laws of CG, makes your jaw drop and makes you drool. After getting over the initial jealousy, rage and fear I get a rush of appreciation and a feeling of "how did they! what the!?" which then makes me want to emulate and better the work myself. This is why I care. clap

I'm lucky enough to be in a position to share allot of what I do as it is mostly for my own purposes, so there is no need to really hide it because of NDA's. I always try and negotiate this into a contract before hand.

Plus CG is my life pretty much, I guess not so much for others.

When you freelance (as most will appreciate, that do it) you can't really stop for a second. As you can't hide behind the petty coat of mommy company to pay your salary each month.

No create..No feed!


I guess I shouldn't have said who cares, haha. I do, otherwise I wouldn't have replied :thumbsup:

[Infinite]

I guess I shouldn't have said who cares, haha. I do, otherwise I wouldn't have replied :thumbsup:

I know you do! I saw the lol! your work speaks volumes Brett, there's no doubt CG is in your blood! :dance: and thanks for posting on the topic, it's pretty negative thread I know and not something most would want to talk about.

[BrettSinclair]

Haha. Thanks Lee. I don't need to tell you I'm a fan ;). But yea I guess it is a sad topic.
This site is great. Lots of mad talent and really friendly people. I hope to keep posting here. I'm not one for posting on multiple forums and cgfeedback seems to be it for the moment for me. Its got it all.

[bneall]

Not saying I have anything to offer but work basically consumes 100% of my energy when it comes to CG. That and I am incredibly lazy. Probably the same for many artists, at least the first reason.

[Infinite]

Not saying I have anything to offer but work basically consumes 100% of my energy when it comes to CG. That and I am incredibly lazy. Probably the same for many artists, at least the first reason.

I hear you, same here when in working at a studio.

I'm not sure if others get it but when in Freelance mode sometimes I suffer from some kind of "artist block", it can take up days sometimes weeks of no creation at all, not out of choice. A full block in creative control. Which is really odd as I don't suffer from this when working in a studio. Then I can go weeks working 24/7 like there isn't enough time in the day!

[BrettSinclair]

:banghead: <--- my worst enemy. haha

[PaulAdams]

Funnily enough I was discussing this just the other day, how little wow factor is out there at the moment. As mentioned I think allot of it is to do with the artists who are likely to produce such art are too busy doing it professionally - maybe having to work longer/hard to keep their position in the current economy.

Another factor is cliques. There are too many on forums now. If a good piece is submitted by a known artist it will be flooded with fanboy-type replies and as a result making it front-page where as another good piece by a lesser known artist is kicked to the side. Thankfully you can delve into the sections here and find inspiring work in nearly every post, the same can't be said for the 'big' forums now.

The whole critique-system is frustrating, getting good feedback by people who *know* what theyre talking about is near-by impossible nowdays due to this careless attitude towards anything but a 'big name' poster. I guess thats a whole other debate though. This site is quite literally the only place I'd post hoping for some worthwhile feedback. Unless I'm out of the loop about some cool underground forums, the rest are hopeless.